"Male*" Et Decorum

Owen's viewpoint on war is glum at best. His poem Dulce et Decorum Est is a representation of his trifle with warfare. From his first dramatic description of a road march to how his comrade died horribly of a gas attack, nothing is jovially described. The man described who failed to obtain his gas mask in time is described "...like a devil's sick of sin", and how "...the blood come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs". As horrible as it seems, one can tell that what he is writing about is in fact true, albeit a definite modernistic approach. The title to me definitely spews sarcasm, and at the end of the poem even claims that the title is "The old Lie"... A young man's yearning for glory and respect back home can easily be taken away from him by a simple road march, or an accidental drop of a gas mask at the wrong time. It's not worth it to him, and writes about war in a negative tone because in one's relentless pursuit for glory, death can very easily get you first.

Pope on the other hand urges young men to enlist and fight for their country. In her poem Who's for the Game? She asks, "Who will grip and tackle the fight unafraid?...Who'll give his country a hand?" She's urging them to do so in a tonality that's almost as if she's saying, "You won't do it because you're scared", and of course an adolescent man is going to take that as a challenge. Very different viewpoint on war when compared to Owen, but then again Owen has been through hell, and eventually succumbed to the devil's game...

Desperate Glory

In Owen’s poem “Dulce Et Decorum Est”, he does not take the verb war very lightly. Reading each line of his poem paints a picture of what it would have been like to be the speaker during World War I, almost as if he is allowing us to sit on the side and see exactly what he is seeing. Every line more detailed than the last just brings emotion to the reader that they would have not otherwise felt. As for me, I would have not thought about what it would be like to watch someone die right in front of me, as he experienced in the poem. I feel like he writes it in a way so that the reader will feel these emotions and understand his point; It is not sweet and prosper to die for one’s country. Thinking so is a lie. Every solider that dies in battle of course is honored in one way or another. Their fellow soldiers will never forget them and everything they did, possibly even saved another person. However, there is nothing sweet about a soldier dying. It affects so many lives; every single person that knew the fallen soldier. It is hard for the rest of his team that is still on the battle field. It gives them a sense of lost hope because it is another man down. They do not know how much longer they will make it out there and they often wonder why it was not them instead. Once the news reaches back home, lives are destroyed emotionally. Having a loved one in battle already keeps the family on their seats, waiting by the phone, or waiting for a Chaplin to knock on the door. They never know if they are going to get a phone call that says, “Hey, hunny! I’m coming home!” or one that says, “We are sorry for your loss.” Although each of the men in battle, whether they make it back home or not, risk everything for the people back home, it is still not a sweet situation. Taking people’s lives to prove a point seems absolutely ridiculous. I do not know how someone could find satisfaction in looking an enemy in the eyes and killing them. Personally, I would not feel like I was doing the right thing whether everyone was telling me I was or not. Reading this poem by Owen fills me up with emotions, almost a hate for war. I honor the people that are overseas fighting for us, but there is nothing sweet about it. It’s a depressing unfortunate situation.

Is Dying Really That Sweet?

Owen's poem, Dulce Et Decorum Est, can be seen as an anti-war poem simply because of its use to show readers that fighting in a war does serve your country well, but is it "sweet and proper to die for one's country", as Owen states or is it just a "lie"? According to Owen he sees that fighting for one's own country and dying is not as sweet or patriotic as it seems. In the poem he tells of a young man that dies from simply not putting on his gas mask fast enough to make him escape from his suffocating death. This death of a soldier can be seen as an insult because of his reason for death which was simply not to put on his gas mask on within a quickness of when the attack took place. Most people that think of a soldier dying, picture them dying in battle trying to protect their country, but in reality most people die from careless mistakes such as this one. Owen thinks that it is outrageous to think that it was "sweet and proper" for this young man to die from failure to put on a gas mask. His "friend" that he speaks to at the end of the poem which was Jessie Pope would think twice about encouraging young men to enlist and fight if she knew what soldiers have to go through to fight for one's country. He wrote this poem so that she would realize that encouraging these men by telling them "lies" about the patriotism and recognition behind serving in the war are all lies and nothing about dying for one's country is "sweet and proper." If Pope knew about Owen and Rosenberg being killed in action, Brooke dying on a troopship from blood poisoning, or how Sassoon was severely wounded in battle, she would feel very opposed to the war and would not want a whole generation of young men to die in vain and then had the truth behind their deaths covered up by the "old lie" like the one told in Dulce Et Decorum Est, but would want the truth to be known. As the old saying goes, "The truth shall set you free," but will the truth if told by Pope or other anti-war poets set the real death stories of soldiers free to readers or just settle like the "old lie"?

War is not an honorable thing to die for

They try to tell the lie that it is sweet and honorable to die for your country. I do not think that war is an honorable thing to die for. What is so honorable about killing people and risking your own life just to do so, in war there can never really be a true winner. Too much is lost and not enough is gained to make up for it. I honestly can see where Owen is coming from. After a man sees his friends broken and beaten and still have to carry on and fight for a cause that is not their own it can really wear on a person. Especially watching one of your fellow soldiers die right in front of your eyes, I'm sure a person wouldn't feel very honorable after witnessing something like that. I think that "Dulce Et Decorum Est" is an anti war poem and that Owens is using a "shock factor" to show this. He wants to show the horrors of what happens in war to let the reader know it is something they should not get involved in no matter how honorable the cause may seem to begin with. He basically even comes out and says it is an anti war poem by saying "The old lie: Dulce et decorum est/Pro patria mori."

perpectives- innies and outties

It seems redundant to say that Wilfred Owen, in "Dulce Et Decorum Est," called Jessie Pope out for her idiotic war-mongering in her poem ""Who"s for the Game?". Obviously that is exactly what he did. However, in the spirit of Devil's Advocate, there are two ameliorating circumstances that must be put in the light in order to fully appreciate the context of these contrasting works. First, and most obvious, Jessie Pope has never factually seen war. She had never smelled powder burns coming from her own clothing, prayed for a small wound that would save her from a larger one, or had her dinner companion blown to bloody bits all over her plate in mid-bite. Women in WWI England rolled bandages, knitted socks, or, if they were especially patriotic (or poor) worked in munitions factories making bullets and bombs, but certainly they did not actually fight the wars. If that seems graphic, remember that WWI was the labratory wherein humanity invented trench warfare. The writers of the poetry in the texbook, like Owen, Rosenberg, and Sassoon, likely saw that and much worse. Reading about "A man's brains splattered on/A stretcher bearer's face" in Rosenberg's "Dead Man's Dump" leaves little doubt that these men did not see war as a game to be played at by boy children looking for fun. The one dissenting voice among the soldier-poets may be that of Brooke's, who had but the distant view of war, and that as an officer, when he wrote "The Soldier." His outlook on war, too, may have shifted had he survived even the initial skirmish to see up close the horrors of death and destruction. While every war in history has certainly had its share of supporters and detractors, it is unquestionably true that it is easier to argue the moral grounds of patriotism if you are not, and are relatively certain of never being, the one at the business end of a machine gun or land mine during that argument. The second important point to be made is that, while every war is arguable on many levels, these are not, by and large, pre-emptive arguments. The Hallmark-card patriotism drivel being excreted by Pope is actually part of a historical and continuing habit on the part of "civilized" governmants everywhere to further their political agendas by use of the talents of writers of poetry and prose. Much like Edmund Burke's difficult to rationalize ideas about why the French should simply carry on in the status quo, political propaganda is simply part of how humans do government. Undoubtedly, every party in this war had some poet who would, failing a war to bring them a fortunate circumstance for appealing to the public's need to believe in the epic heroism of war, have been a mediocre and instantly forgotten submitter to the local paper. What the male soldier-poets in the textbooks were writing was materially a different type of work. While it is an extremely effective deterrent to getting sucked into the idea of WWI as being some sort of ancient and heroic war of the gods, one suspects its other purpose was to help the writer work out the psychological tangles that the experience of war left inside of them. Tis stands in direct juxtaposition to Pope, who is writing feel-good nursery rhymes form a "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" perspective.

A lie

When young soldiers decide to fight for their country they are made to believe that it is a sweet and nobel thing to do. They are not told of the brutalities of war. The poet Jessie Pope was a pro- war poet, and in her poems she made men who did not fight in the war seem as if they are weak and are afraid of the war, and that they will not be respected by the people in their country. She didn't mention the severity of actually fighting in a war as did Wilfred Owen did. He showed that fighting in a war was not fun, that the type of death they were to endure was not a easy one. He mention a solider who died from a gas attack. He says, "His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin," the solider who had passed away just went through possibly one of the worst ways to die. So I believe that yes it is a lie, war is not a beautiful and sweet thing , and soldiers should have been told what they were signing up for.

They will never be the same

I think the poem 'They' is an anti-war poem. I say this because the poem states that when after the boys come back from war they are never the same. Whether they not be the same because they have had to get a leg removed or a arm blown off or its because they have seen so many people die to where they just can not get over it. In other words, troops are scarred for the rest of their life after going through war. Seeing people killed or badly wounded is not healthy for someone to see everyday without questioning God and his reasons for why all of this is happening. I think this poem is saying why should we put people through seeing all of these awful things, threathening their life everyday, and scarring people for the rest of their life. The poem expresses how troops challenge death everyday meaning that everyday they are out their fighting there is a chance that they could die or see someone else die. However, I feel like we are very blessed that there are people out their that will take that chance of death for the freedom of our country.

Sweet and Proper

"It is sweet and proper to die for one's country". In Owen's poem Dulce Et Decorum Est, this statement is referred to as "the old lie". First of all, I find it strange to refer to any manner of death as "sweet". Upon dying, not only does a person cease to exist, no longer able to pursue their dreams, but they leave behind people who love them, and whose lives will be forever changed. This in my mind is the opposite of "sweet". Next, by saying that it is "proper" to die for one's country, it is implied that it is something everyone should do, like having good manners. Proper to die? Yes, everyone dies but does it make a difference in what way? What makes dying for one's country "proper" and "sweet" compared to dying in any other way?

After reading this poem, I would be surprised if any one could agree with this statement. It seems that even the most patriotic of people could not read what these men went through for their country and call their death "sweet" or "proper". How can Owen believe that death for your country is "sweet" after watching the man die in front of him of gas?

This poem can be considered anti-war, definitely. It seems to me that it would be hard for anyone to read this poem and not feel a little anti-war themselves.

Dulce Et Decorum Est--The old lie

Dulce Et Decorum Est: It is sweet and proper to die for one's country. Is this an "old lie" as Owen so strongly suggests in his poem? My understanding of the events of war as depicted through Owen's vivid details is that yes, this is a lie and a terrible one at that. How can suffering death in these horrid ways ever be "sweet"? Owen tells of a young man that lost his life as a result of simply not putting his gas mask on quickly enough. His depiction of the horrible sight of this man's death was far from sweet. He speaks of the haunting memory of this man "drowning" in the "green sea", of "the blood gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs, obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues"--should anyone suffer such a death because it is "sweet and proper" for them to do so? Absolutely not. I find it outrageous for anyone to expect a young man to subject himself to such a thing for a silly cause and claim that it is the "proper" thing for one to do in order to show dedication to a country.

This poem can definitely be considered an anti-war poem. Through the realistic descriptions of the events of war that Owen gives the readers, it is clear that he is not in favor of the war and its killing of so many young, innocent men. He also tells his friend, Jesse Pope, that if she could experience the horrors of war as described in Dulce Et Decorum Est, she would not be encouraging the men to enlist in the war. Through the intent of the poem and the strong use of imagery, it is clear that Owen is anti-war.

War Is Hell

DULCE ET DECORUM EST I can see that this could be seen as an anti war poem, reading it and visualizing the front line, first in action first to die. People die in war and it was a true poem. War starts to protect who's ever freedom at that point in time. I tried to put myself there in that time but it is hard. Sad to visualize the person next to you is dying right in front of you "Before my helpless sight" and this is all for; " It is sweet and right to die for your country "... I see him being anti war; anti people dying; he caught the Hell in war and wrote it. No where is there hey guys wake up breakfast... or wow that bar we were at last night rocked or wow we took that hill easy they just ran away after they saw us...Nothing happy in this poem! Ultimate Multiple Sadness !! Yes I agree that these words were a Lie. He was there his friends died and marched without boots and fumbled around to get the gas masks on "Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time"... and the description of that mate dying. No way he felt that it is good to die for any reason and yet, he made it, he got killed and we got his poem... I just can not believe he felt that it was good to die for your country, he may have enlisted with that thought and feeling but this poem expresses much pain and the true side of what war is....

Misleading and a lie..

Excuse what may be my lack of patriotism but I agree that the phrase “It is sweet and proper to die for one’s country” is a lie. Obviously it is incredibly loyal to die for one’s country but I have a hard time identifying the word “sweet” with dying under any circumstance. Owen provides vivid and horrid descriptions in his poem that allow his readers to see exactly why it is not “sweet” or “proper” to die for one’s country. For example, he informs us of precisely what soldiers go through with lines such as “But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind; Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots.” Also, Owen paints a frightening picture for his audience when he describes how one soldier did not get his helmet on in time for the gas and therefore suffered a horrible death. Moreover, those words are a lie because Pope’s poems seem to be very misleading to me. For instance, in “Who’s for the Game?” she writes “Who would much rather come back with a crutch than lie low and be out of the fun? Come along, lads.” Young men who read that poem obviously got the impression that the war wasn’t that bad and they would most likely return with minor injuries when the truth is that many soldiers didn’t return home at all. I think it’s appropriate how Owen basically tells Pope, in the end of his poem, that if she really knew what went on during the war then she would not be encouraging others to enlist. Ultimately, Owen’s poem could definitely be considered an anti-war poem since he disapproves of Pope encouraging young men to enlist and he even coins the war “some desperate glory” in line 26 of “Dulce Et Decorum Est.” Next, Sassoon’s works “They” and “Glory of Women” could be considered anti-war poems. I say this not only because his opinions are evident in his work but also because his biographical sketch tells of how his views changed on war after an injury. Not to mention, he wrote a letter to his commanding officer stating “I believe that the war is being deliberately prolonged by those who have the power to end it.” Lastly, the final two lines in “Glory of Women” which state “While you are knitting socks to send your son his face is trodden deeper in the mud” allow me to see why this could be considered an anti-war poem.

Quiz Scores

Out of a possible 7 correct answers, here are the quiz scores from Tuesday's class: 3, 5, 2, 2, 0, 6, 2, 4, 2, 1, 0, 2, 1, 0, 2, 0, 7, 1, 0, 1.

Average score: 2.05.

Looks like I need to give more quizzes.

Prompt for Thursday: Sweet and Proper?

Based on the Heart of Darkness quiz scores, some of you need to redeem yourselves a bit. Here is your chance.


For Thursday, please discuss the title of Wilfred Owen's famous poem, "Dulce Et Decorum Est." This phrase, taken from Horace, means something like, "It is sweet and proper to die for one's country." In his poem, Owen calls this "The old lie." (The "friend" Owen is speaking to at the end of the poem is Jessie Pope, whose poetry, as you will have noticed in your reading, zealously encourages young men to enlist and fight.) 


My specific question is this: Do you agree that these words are a "lie"? If so, why/how are they a lie? If not, what is true about them?

Also consider this question about all of the poetry you are reading for Thursday: Can any of these be called anti-war poems? Why or why not?

Before answering these questions, please read the introduction to this section, "Voices from World War I," as well as the biographical sketch on each writer. Note that these are soldier poets, not bystanders. Owen and Rosenberg were killed in action, Brooke died on a troopship, and Sassoon was severely wounded in battle. Please refer specifically to one or more of their poems as part of your response.

Glancing Into The Dark

In the name of trade and the belief in commerce all actions taken are warranted. The destruction of land, flora, fauna, and community are all necessary to the constructs of profit. Dehumanizing the natives (savages) is all part of the process of conquest. They are merely animals to perform tasks that other civilized men would not undertake. Also through this belief the “savages” do not have rights to anything they are merely tools. And as long as individuals in the employ of the company hold this belief to be true, they will be able to fulfill their duties without a feeling of remorse. But in the process of being immersed in this insanity, the darkness one can also lose themselves in ways never before understood.

Those innate desires, the dark that is within us all begins to come out and take over and we begin to behave in strange ways. Folding reality into a construct that will give us permission for the actions we take. Mr. Kurtz is an example of this idea. He worked for the company and was placed in a secluded spot whereby he began to manipulate the “savages” to do his will. He built himself up to them as a god or a higher being with power over them, and eventually with himself believing in this idea. The ivory was his. The river was his. The people were his. It all belonged to him. Believing himself to be a benevolent leader over all that he saw. And therein lays the belief that “something you can set up, and bow down before, and offer a sacrifice to."

You have to lie to soothe the hearts of the loved ones left behind

Kurtz's very last words were"The horror, The horror", but before those was a plea for death, "I am lying here in the dark waiting for death;" and yet before that Kurtz new it was his time to go, He gave Marlow a packet of papers with a photograph. In that afternoon he was lying on his back his eyes closed and said;"Live rightly die die..." Marlow thought that it was giberrish or that it was some speech he was practicing for. So one evening he came in the cabin and and heared Kurtz say I am lying here waiting for death and Marlow said "Oh Nonsence". Marlow blew out the candle and went to the mess hall and a black boy said Mistah Kurtz is dead..... Marlow took it upon himself to deliver the news and the papers that were given to him by Kurtz and at the end of the story he made it to Kurtz's fiancee. The news he brought to her gave him deep sadness and they talked and she finally wanted to know his last words, and Marlow said it was your name he said. I think he told her the lie just to soothe her heart for a little, just knowing it was her he was thinking of with his last breath of life. Although it was a lie I deemed it appropriate

Fairytale Lie

The Kurtz that the fiancée knew was not the true Kurtz. Marlow knew the true Kurtz from when he was in England. Marlow believes in truth and how hard it is to tell and get the truth at times. Marlow’s whole life is based on truth, which made it very surprising to me when he lied to the fiancée about Kurtz’s last words. Kurtz’s real last words were “The horror! The horror!” When Marlow saw Kurtz’s fiancée he wants to tell her the truth, but something in him won’t let him. When she asks Marlow what Kurtz’s final words he ends up telling her it was her name. I think he lies because for one he knows that this would be what she would like to hear that his last words were. Being that he hates lies, the fiancée believes him. The lie shows that you don’t always know what you would do until you’re in the situation. Yes, lies are bad but this lie made this woman feel better. I believe he lied because all she knew of her fiancée was a lie and that if he told the truth now that it would ruin her imaginary fairy tale life she had with him.

Heart of Darkness Prompts

For Tuesday, interpret one of the two passages below and use it as a lens through which to discuss the novella. Or, alternatively, you may take a shot at prompt #3. (Regardless of which prompt you choose, I should be able to tell from reading your response that you have indeed read Heart of Darkness.) 

1. "The conquest of the earth, which mostly means the taking it away from those who have a different complexion or slightly flatter noses than ourselves, is not a pretty thing when you look at it too much. What redeems it is the idea only. An idea at the back of it; not a sentimental pretense but an idea; and an unselfish belief in the idea--something you can set up, and bow down before, and offer a sacrifice to." (1894)

2. "It was unearthly, and the men were--No, they were not inhuman. Well, you know, that was the worst of it--the suspicion of their not being inhuman. It would come slowly to one. They howled and leaped, and spun, and made horrid faces; but what thrilled you was just the thought of their humanity--like yours--the thought of your remote kinship with this wild and passionate uproar. Ugly. Yes, it was ugly enough; but if you were man enough you would admit to yourself that there was in you just the faintest trace of a response to the terrible frankness of that noise, a dim suspicion of there being a meaning in it which you--you so remote from the night of first ages--could comprehend. And why not?" (1916)

3. Why does Marlow lie to Kurtz's fiancee at the end of the story? What might his motivation be, and what might it reveal about him?

Thank you. See you on Tuesday. 

Nothing to Be Done

Last year I read Samuel Beckett’s Waiting for Godot after which I saw a version of the play in film form. Beckett’s writing has had a tremendous affect on me, especially Waiting for Godot. I was entranced by the characters and their discourse throughout the play. Through what seems to be an ambiguous dialogue we are shown insight into the human condition. Our ability to continue with a task day in and day out, without asking why, is an idea that I pull from the play. What I mean is the reasoning behind the things we do: to make more money, make better grades, personal gain, love or sex. But underneath all of that I wonder, what the true motivations behind the actions we take are. Waiting for Godot takes us underneath the façade of the human face and we get a picture of what we are on the inside; Estragon physical need and desire, Vladimir the mind/psyche or reasoning, Pozzo is blind ambition/pride, and Lucky is stoicism, with the Little Boy being the scent of the piece of cheese (Godot) at the end of the maze. All these characters together are the pieces that make up the whole play. In other words the characters together are the inner dialogue we have within us. For every choice we make there is this conversation that is held whether we understand it or not. The decision between need or desire. As Estragon says “Nothing to be done,” No matter what it is always there.

When the World Changed

In 1920s has a major affect on my life in numorous ways. One of the things is electricity. Whenever I think about it, I pretty much use electricity for everything in my life and I honestly would not how to survive without it. If you look around probably 95% of everything you see has something to do with using electricity in some kind of way. But out of everything in the 1920s as a women I would have to say the womens movement is what inflences me the most. I can now do and achieve pretty much anything a guy can in today's society because of the 1920s. I feel like having equal rights as men is the best achievement out of this time. Now anything a woman puts their mind to they can achieve just as a man can. Because of the 1920s, I got to choose where I wanted to get my college education from and what I wanted to do with my college degree. In addition, I get to pursue my career dream and go out into the world and do whatever it is that makes me happy without anything holding me back and I am very blessed for that!

After reading about the 20th century, I found a couple of things that have strongly influenced my life. Clearly, the women's right movement has impacted my life in countless ways. Without this movement, I would not be able to do so many of the things that I love in my life. The women that fought for women's rights made it possible for me to pursue a college degree, pursue a career, and ultimately become independent.

I also found that the Education Act of 1870 influenced my life. My major is early childhood education; I aspire to be an elementary school teacher. I have never considered the idea that elementary schooling was at one point in time not mandatory for young children. I'm thankful that this act came to pass in the 20th century. If it were not for this act, that made elementary schooling mandatory, I would not be able to pursue this career and do what I love.

Long-lasting Effects

The twentieth century has affected my life today in countless ways. First off, on page 1829 it states “..everyday life was undergoing rapid transformation during the first years of the twentieth century. Electricity was spreading, cinema and radio were proliferating, and new pharmaceuticals such as aspirin were being developed.” It is safe to say that we have all been affected by those rapid developments. Obviously I use electricity every day, listen to the radio, go to an occasional movie, and have consumed aspirin. Moreover, the scientific revolution that took place in the twentieth century has directly impacted my life today. I say this because as a result of the scientific revolution, I (and probably everyone else in this class) had or has to study certain scientific theories/topics in high school and in college. In fact, two of my classes this semester (Anatomy & Physiology and Intro. To Microbiology) embed a great deal of science which a lot of was probably discovered/developed in the twentieth century. Not to mention, devices such as X-rays, ultrasounds, and MRI imaging were developed in this century. All of these inventions are particularly important to me because I plan to work in the health field once I graduate. Overall, if it wasn’t for the scientific revolution then the world would not be so scientifically and technologically advanced today. Lastly, something that “jumped” at me in the reading that has personally affected my life is when the text mentioned that women were admitted to universities at different times during the later part of the century. If this hadn’t took place then I would not be where I am today, I wouldn’t have had the opportunity to enroll at ETSU and major in whatever I chose.

The 20th Century

Obviously, a number of very important and influential events took place in the 20th century. Being a woman, I feel as if the women's rights movement is an obvious choice as to which of these events has meant the most to me personally. Being born in the last decade of the 20th century, women's rights is not always something that you think of as ever having been an issue. Growing up when I did, I never felt looked down on because of my gender, and because of this it is hard to imagine a time when women were. It means a lot to me that there were women strong and brave enough to stand up for what they felt was right in a time when things like that were unheard of. If not for these women, I wouldn't be who I am today: a college student with a job, living on my own, paying my own bills. If this event hadn't taken place, my dreams to graduate college and pursue a career in which I can support myself would be pointless.

Prompt: The 20th Century

Each of you was born in the twentieth century. Some of you are old enough to remember some, or many, of the events and literary trends mentioned in the reading. Others of you will hardly remember the last century. All of you, however, have been affected by, and are in some sense products of, the previous century. For Thursday, then, I would like for you to choose something (or a few things) from the reading and discuss how it has/they have impacted your life personally. Really think about this question and try to do it justice.

Thank you.

After Death Revenge

At the end of "After Death" the speakers is happy that "he" who did not love her living is still warm, meaning alive. She is happy he is alive so now he can pity her and now he relizes what he could of had, but now its too late. Just like some poets are not famous untill they die, the speaker is not noticed untill she dies. The sweet thing about this situation for the speaker is that she is dead and he has to live with not having her. This was the speakers sweet revenge in a twisted kind of way.

Damn You, Dad

Rossetti's "After Death" to me is a poem that shows she struggled to win over some form of affection with a male figure in her life. After looking over her corpse, the only actions the man does is say, "Poor child, poor child", he didn't kiss her, didn't tidy her up so as to make her more presentable, or even "...ruffle the smooth pillows" for her head. However, nor did she care. The poem states that the man did not love her while she was alive, but showed remorse and pity for her when she died.

"After Death" could be about her father. After a lifetime of receiving no love or form of affection, seeing him cry on her deathbed proved to her that there actually was an emotional connection. He also called her child, something my parents call me on occasion. She finally saw that the old man did have a warmth in his heart, which is what mostly all sons and daughters want, for their parents to love them.

Too Little, Too Late

In “After Death” the speaker is pleases at the end of the poem there was an emotional reaction from the “he” in the poem. It seems to me that while she was alive the man (whoever he is) was cold and unloving towards her. But now that she has died he feels sadness and pain, which was more than she when alive. I would also say that while she was alive that she had love and respect for him. But now she has passed and is”cold” she can feel that “he” actually cared for her. The two characters are opposites of each other; when alive she is warm and he is “cold” and death she becomes cold and he in turn becomes “warm.” The truth is I feel like the speaker is pleased with her death because, in a weird way, she has exacted a strange sort of revenge on him. Oh, now that I’m dead you show some feelings, some remorse. Ha, that’s too little too late.

People only like you after your dead

In this poem it explains how this person starts being nice and saying sweet things toward this person that is dead, even though when this dead person was alive he never said or done one sweet or nice thing towards that person. I see this happen alot. Whenever people die and several groups go over to the family's house to show their sympathy you will always see people that talked bad about the person that had just past away or been mean to them; however, they are over there acting like they were their best friend when really they are just being nosy and see how everyone is reacting and what exactly happened to cause the death. Another example is at funerals, there are always people there that were not even nice to that person but just act like they are so upset whenever they pass away. I feel like people dont need to act like they were such good friends with that person or that they were nice to that person after the fact they are dead. They know that the dead person can not defend theirselves therefore they say what the people want to hear whether is be true or not. I think if you have something to say to someone you should say it to them why they are alive and not wait til they are dead.

"A conciousness of gender.."

I believe that Rossetti is and should be considered a feminist writer. After reading through her poems, one will notice that she never states the speaker as a he but only as a she. Not every poem clarifys its speaker as a certain gender, but from the wording and rhyme of the poems one most likely will interpret the speaker as a woman. For example the poem A birthday, the speaker is not represented as a man or woman but when reading lines such as "My heart is like a rainbow shell that paddles in a halcyon sea, my heart is gladder than all these because my love is come to me", with a "sing song" rhyme and with dramatic wordings of love the gender of the speaker is most likely meant to be seen as a woman joyous for her love to come to her.

Also in her description she is without a father from the time she was an adolescent. She was very religious and never married. She stuck to what she believed and became a highly independent woman, helping fallen women in a female penetentary as a volunteer. She was very passionate with helping women and i believe that was represented through her poetry.

Existence

Life can be hard on everyone and I believe its much more difficult when the one you love has no feelings for you. In Christina Rossetti's poem After Death the speaker has passed away and her loved one said "Poor child, Poor child," showing he still had feelings for her but those feelings did not emerge till after she has passed away. The speaker continues to say, " He did not love me living; but once dead He pitied me; and very sweet it is To know he still is warm tho' I am cold." The speaker died happily because she died knowing she was still cared and loved for. I believe she may have felt as if she had existed even though she has passed away. That feeling of existence made her rest at peace.

I think that this poem can also be referring to relationships. Sometimes while your in a relationship you don't realize what is in front of you whether it be good or bad till it is gone. Sometimes you need a third person perspective to help you realize what has always been there, but was not expressed clearly. The speaker herself may have also been an outsider looking in that helped her feel pleased after death.

After Death

I believe the speaker was pleased at the end of "After Death" because she was not being loved when she was alive saying "He did not love me living, but once dead he pitied me; and very sweet it is". It is crazy to me that she looked past everything after death for the simple fact that he showed some type of love towards her after death. To me this shows how powerful that emotion is and at the end of the day the best feeling is knowing that you are loved. The entire poem is dark and sad about her dying and him not showing her any love, but the end ends on a brighter not just because he "pitied" her after death.

"He did not love me living.."

"He did not love me living; but once dead

He pitied me; and very sweet it is to know

He is still warm tho' I am cold."

Rossetti's poem After Death depicts a woman's realization that the mourner truly does love her. This idea is simple enough, until you consider that the woman made this realization when deceased. I found that having the woman narrate the story when she was, in fact, dead to be an interesting touch. Because Rossetti did this, we are able to envision the mourner from the dead woman's eyes, if you will.

Why would this woman be happy upon realizing her mourner was grieving for his loss? It is easy to assume that the reason she felt pleasure from his pain is that she did not feel this love and appreciation when living. She seems satisfied in knowing that he did, after all, love her and perhaps she's satisfied that now, it was too late for him to do anything about it.

More Than Just Heat

In Rossetti's poem "After Death", it starts out as a very dark poem filled with sadness and an unpleasant setting as we realize that the woman narrating the story is dead . "The curtains were half drawn, the floor was swept/And lay strewn with rushes, rosemary and may/ Lay thick upon the bed on which I lay" Flowers associated with death are surrounding her and it is obvious that she is lying in a coffin. It seems as if there is no way that this woman could be happy because her life has just ended. However, she express happiness towards a man that is at her funeral: "He did not love me living; but once dead/ He pitied me; and very sweet it is/ To know he still is warm tho' I am cold." I believe that when the woman expresses these cheerful feelings that she means much more than the literal interpretation of the word "warm". Of course she means that she is happy that the man is still living and "warm". However, I believe that she also is very happy that the man is finally expressing "warm" feelings toward her (even though it took her death for that to occur she is still thrilled that it has finally happened). This is the reason that the woman is truly happy. She has finally achieved the love that she has desired from this man, and that is even enough to keep her happy even after he mortal life has ended.

Life is a Work in Progress

To me, this title "In Progress" is something that anyone can relate to. The first two lines of the poem say, "Ten years ago it seemed impossible that she should ever grow so calm as this", I can relate to this, just as I'm sure most people can, because anyone who looks back ten years can see how they have changed over time. Life itself is a work in process, everyone grows, everyone changes, and everyone has to adapt to the different situations around them. The woman in the poem is "in progress" because she has changed through her life also, she has grown more calm as she gets older. The speaker expresses the fact that she would like to see "Her head shoot forth seven stars from where they lurk and her eyes lightnings and her shoulders wings". I interpreted this as one day they would like to see the woman actually have great emotions about something, since she is so "Mindful of drudging daily common things, patient at pastime, patient at her work". It's as if the woman has lost all of her spark as she has gotten older, she is just quiet and nonchalant about everything. I feel that this is the way a lot of people are in reality. There are many people I know that were pretty wild when they were younger but as they grew older they started to settle down.

"Funny when you're dead how people start listening."

When I first read “After Death” I thought the speaker was being sarcastic in the end when she states

“He pitied me; and very sweet it is
To know he still is warm tho’ I am cold.”

However, I now see that the speaker really is pleased to know that this male character pities her now that she is dead. I also got the impression that he cares more for her now that she has died than when she was alive which also pleases the speaker to know. This concept actually goes along with the song and video “If I Die Young” that we watched in class yesterday, especially the lyrics that say “Funny when you’re dead how people start listening” and “A penny for my thoughts, oh no I’ll sell them for a dollar they're worth so much more after I’m a goner.”
Moreover, I completely agree with these lyrics and this concept in general, it is somewhat ironic how people tend to pay more attention to someone or one becomes more “worthy” once they’ve passed on. Another instance of this is how some artists (like Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson for example) seem to be more famous in death than in life... Perhaps the speaker is pleased to know that she is loved more since she has passed away? I think this may be the case. Lastly, I’d like to mention that in the last line “To know he still is warm tho’ I am cold” I interpreted “warm” to not only mean his actual physical temperature (and the fact that he is still living) but also his new affection towards the deceased speaker.

I am happy he lives as I am dead

After Death
I think that this is a dramatic poem, it is sad full of despair but it should be, it is about death. Death is never a happy subject, with that in mind it was a morbid read. I think it is on the edge of being Gothic. After Death was easy to understand, but sad; some words rhymed but no pattern, there were no big vocabulary words, and no guessing what the writer meant. I see this poem as the speaker talking to a man that visits a woman's death bed. The only wonder is who is the man. Could it be one of her Two failed relationships that ended in refusal to marry because of there Christan beliefs or lack there of, but they can not be because she said he did not love her when she was alive. The reason why the speaker is pleased because I believe the man is still alive even though she is dead. I wanted to write on is Christina Rossetti a feminist or a writer of religious beliefs, the auto biography in one and one half pages does not make it clear. She never married she had a strong religious belief, stayed with her family, had some friends did not get out that much, stopped playing chess because she was to competitive, stopped going to plays for the vulgarity. One biography said that she was sexually abused by her Father, suffered from depression, and in latter years in life volunteered at a woman's prison, and add Two men she refused to marry. It could be religious or feminist

Christina Rossetti Prompts

For Thursday, please respond to one of the following prompts:

1. Can Rossetti be called a feminist writer? Why or why not?

2. Why do you think the speaker is pleased at the end of "After Death"?

3. Interpret the title of "In Progress." How is the woman in the poem "in progress"?

See you tomorrow!