Poem that has it all

Frost at Midnight, This had Love, Fear, Anger, ponder, sadness, happyness, it was emotional it captured all the feelings and the senses for me,it read well flowed great one would look at it and think wow that is a long poem with different topics and danced around but that is not the case for me. It opened with the seens of a dew freezing like life freezes in one night, sounds that only God could create, and the city he was in was growing covering nature and how he felt trapped in doors when he was young and had to go to school even then he wanted to be outside. Talking of an old man and describing him, coming back to his baby seeing the joy it brought just by looking at him and dealing with his immorality and back to God the Creator and finishing with the pleasings of all seasons and an enter twine that pleasing in all the seasons of life from baby youth and old man, I thought that this was the best poem I have ever read....

Kubla Khan

At first I did not really get why Kubla Khan was written (other than Coleridge had a vivid dream). However, after further analysis of the poem, I realized that it was much more that just an interesting story about one man's dream. It is true that Coleridge describes, in beautiful detail and imagery, his life-like dream of Kubla Khan's magnificent walls and gardens. However, I believe that instead of describing Kubla Khan in this poem, Coleridge was really describing his own experience through Kubla Khan.

It says that Coleridge had a dream in which he composed poetry, and then, upon trying to write it down, he was interupted. Once he came back to try and finish his poetry, the images were blurred and he was not able to complete it due to lack of memory. This is a perfect example of what Kubla Khan is about. It starts out exactly like Coleridge's experience does. Everything is happy and magical. "And there were gardens bright with sinuous rills/Where blossomed many an incense-bearing tree" However, there is soon an unforeseen conflict that arises and disrupts the beauty of the garden. "Amid this tumult Kubla heard from far/ Ancestral voices prophesying war!" Then, after the conflict is overcome the beauty of the garden still remains, but it is not the same splendor as it was before. Finally, in the last stanza, Coleridge describes a damsel with a dulcimer playing a beautiful melody that he is trying to take in and harness it's power. "To such a deep delight t'would win me,/ That with music loud and long,/ I would build that dome in air,/ That sunny dome! those caves of ice!" He is saying that if he could only harness in himself her "word and song" that he could recreate the beauty of the "pleasure-dome" that Kubla Khan created.

This is a mirror image of how Coleridge's experience with writing the poem was. Coleridge had a beautiful dream where he created a magnificent poem. Then upon trying to write it down and keep up it's splendor, there was an unforeseen obstacle that came into play in the form of a man from Porlock. Then when the obstacle was overcome, the beauty of the poem was still in his head; however, it was not the same due to he could not remember it. Then he remembered how miraculous his dream was and wished that he could just remember it all once more so that he may final create his masterpiece (the damsel singing was a metaphor to this).

So in essence, Kubla Khan was just as much a recolection of a vivid dream, as well as, a tale of personal struggle to reconnect with the beauty that he had lost.

Gothic

I think Samuel Coleridge's The Rime of the Ancient Mariner, was intended to be gothic literature. In lines 63-65 the mariner describes how he saw an Albatross, which he assumed was good luck but he later killed the bird. The mariner says, " Then all averred, I killed the bird that brought the fog and mist," by saying this he is making the bird come across as supernatural. In the poem words such as death, fog, curses, snakes, and mist all cause the reader to feel fear. As I was reading I felt fear for the crews life as they approached the eerie ship. I didn't want to stop reading because I wanted to find out what was going to happen to them once they got closer. The descriptions used in the poem set a tone and an image of the supernatural, making the Rime of the Ancient Mariner a good example of gothic literature.

Romanticism and Cities...

Coleridge's Frost at Midnight shares more common-ground then not when being compared to Wordsworth's Tintern Abbey. Coleridge moved to London at an early age, and looks back moreso on the negative atmosphere that big cities often exude (i.e. bars on windows, always a hustle and bustle, etc). Coleridge, like Wordsworth, is clearly a romantic poet who is stuck living where he very much does not want to be, away from nature. Both poets also implore that a certain loved one take time and get out in nature to experience what it has to offer. A key difference when the two poets are compared is how they view their childhood: Coleridge doesnt seem to look too highly upon it and wants better for his son, whereas Woodsworth often reminisces of the places and sights he visited when he was younger. Even though their upbringings were located in different parts of England, the two still share that common bond on how nature plays a major role in their lives so much that they desire to have someone close to them have similar experiences.

The Rime of the Ancient Mariner

The poem The Rime of the Ancient Mariner I believe could definitely be called a "gothic" poem. It was a very dark and gloomy poem that also had other characteristics of being gothic. It speaks about darkness, death, wickedness, pain, and agony. Hell is mentioned in the poem and a difficulty when trying to look on to heaven and pray because of wicked whispers. Throughout the whole poem words used for description are dark, gray, dread, and lifeless. To me this poem was nothing but dark and gloomy therefore I would classify it as a Gothic poem.

Gothic Indeed

Coleridge's "Rime of the Ancient Mariner" is a very gothic poem. It has all the elements of something you would see in any gothic type writing, it's very dark and gloomy. The only "happy" part of the poem is at the beginning before the Albatross is killed, and that turns dark in no time. When the ghost ship appeared the first thing that popped into my head was the ghost ship in Pirates of the Caribbean which is super dark and depressing looking. When I think gothic, I think black, death, depression, horror and this poem definitely had all these elements.

Let Nature Be Your Teacher

If Coleridge himself is the narrator of "Frost at Midnight", then his childhood differs from Wordsworth because Coolridge explains that he grew up in a city and "saw nought lovely but the sky and stars" and Wordsworth grew up in the country around all the nature. Also, Coleridge is happy for his child in this poem because the child gets to grow up around nature instead of in the crowded city. This is the same way that Wordsworth feels for his daughter, he says in "Lines Composed Above Tintern Abbey", "thy mind shall be a mansion for all lovely forms," which shows that he also wants her to be able to enjoy nature the way he does. This shows me that both men have a love for nature and want their children to experience that same love and appreciation. They both will probably teach their children that they can learn more from nature than they can learn from books.

Coleridge and Wordsworth's shared dream

After reading Frost at Midnight, it is clear that both Coleridge and Wordsworth shared similar feelings about their birth place; however, the two had seemingly different childhood experiences. In Wordsworth’s Tintern Abbey, you learn of the beautiful countryside that he had the pleasure of growing up in. Even as a child, he was passionate about his home, even if he did not realize how much he appreciated it. Coleridge, however, did not share this luxury. Coleridge lived in a town in England in which he loved for nine years. At the beginning of age nine, he moved to London to attend school. He spoke about “gazing upon the bars” of the school windows and dreaming of the home that he once knew.

At the end of both poems, the two declare their wishes for the others present—Coleridge’s son and Wordsworth’s younger sister. Wordsworth proclaims his hope that nature will make herself known to his younger sister in the present in order to provide her with a fond memory of the time shared together. Coleridge shares a similar hope for his son and the end of his poem. He hopes that his son will also experience nature’s surroundings. Clearly, both Wordsworth and Coleridge are hopeful that the two will experience their surroundings in such a way that will make them fall in love with their home, much like they did as children.

An entertaining fear

The Rime of the Ancient Mariner is a perfect blend of romance and horror, and contains many other aspects of gothic literature.
This piece begins very ominously, with the mariner stopping the wedding guests to tell them his story. Although frightened, the guest seems spellbound, like a child, to listen to the mariner ("The Mariner hath his will"). The story continues with the frightening "land of ice, and of fearful sounds, where no living thing was to be seen" that the mariner's ship sails towards. This suspense contributes to the audience's entertaining fear. This suspense continues when the albatross, a good omen, appears and the reader is a little more settled, until the mariner kills it.
The poem comes into a more supernatural and evil feel when the albatross begins avenging itself against the mariner and his crew by causing them to be without drinking water, the still ocean is compared to "a witch's oils", and the crew is convinced a spirit is following them from beneath the sea.
In part 3, the madness begins when the mariner bites his own arm and sucks his blood. A ghost-ship then approaches, carrying the ultimate fear for all-Death. The presence of these supernatural ghosts is very unsettling to readers. All of the mariner's shipmates die before him, and lay in rot around him. But later, they come back to life and begin operating the ship.
The darkness of the poem is further enhanced by the phrases such as "black lips baked" and "slimy things" .
Also, throughout the mariner's story, the wedding guest continually interrupts him, pleading for him to stop because he is scared. This is interesting, because while the reader is entranced in the mariner's horrific story, they are also brought back to the present time of the story being told by the mariner himself, who is almost equally as scary to the wedding guest who is trapped by some spell listening to him.

Frost on My Prison Bars

In Coleridge’s “Frost at Midnight” it is very obvious that he had a different childhood experience than Wordsworth experienced. Wordsworth always wanted to be outside learning as much as he could from nature and expanding his imagination; just letting things come to him. Coleridge paints a picture through his poem that shows us he felt like a prisoner in the city that he grew up in. He thinks about how the world is so silent at night time but yet how his mind is so loud. Although it is quiet in his house because everyone is sleeping, the world does not stop outside. While he lies there awake his mind does not stop either. In part of the poem, after he talks about his own thoughts, he starts talking to his child that is sleeping beside him. He becomes very concerned with his child’s future. He wishes for his child to grow up differently than he did and have a great imagination. He doesn’t want his child to feel like a prisoner in a big city; instead grow up by lakes and sandy shores. This is different from Wordsworth’s “Tintern Abbey” where he relives his childhood experiences and remembers how much he loved being a carefree child.

A Gothic Moment

I would consider "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner" by Samuel Coleridge as an very gothic poem. There are several words and lines that make me think of a very dark and evil time. The poem starts out with three young men walking to a wedding when they see an old long grey breaded man. The ancient mariner grabs one of the young men with his skinny hands. The mariner ended up letting the young man go after demanded to do so; however, the young man was fancinated with this man and decided to sit down on a stone and listen to the mariner's story. He tells how he was on this ship when a big storm came and took the ship southward where they ended up getting stuck in ice. When they were stuck they saw an Albatross, which is a symbol of good luck to sailors. However, the Mariner ended up shooting at it and killing it. The other sailors were not happy about this. They were stuck with nothing to eat nor drink and blamed the ancient mariner for this and in result, they ended up hanging dead Albatross around the mariner's neck. The mariner ended up seeing a ship in the far distance, but his mouth was so dry that he could not speak. Therefore, he bit his arm and drank his blood to moisten his mouth for him to call out to the ship. This is only the beginning of the mariner's story and everyone can already tell how this poem illustrates a gothic time. There is nothing happy or joyful in the tone or mood of this poem whatsoever. There are words like grey, storm, blood, and cry that accentuates a very dark and gothic poem.

Coleridge Prompts

Prompts for Thursday

1. "Kubla Khan" is a good example of something we have been discussing about poetry, namely that it is not prose and therefore cannot be paraphrased. It is difficult to say what the poem is “about”; in a sense, any external "meaning" we come up with for "Kubla Khan" is probably much less important than the effect the poem has upon us as we read it. Read the poem out loud a few times. Focus on its sounds and its rhythms. What is your biological response to it? What do you feel? What do you envision? Try, at least the first time you read it, to immerse yourself in its sonic and rhythmic properties instead of analyzing "what it means." Then write about your response.

2. Let’s assume that the speaker of “Frost at Midnight” is Coleridge himself. How did his childhood differ from Wordsworth’s? Relatedly, how do the wishes he offers for his child compare to those W. Wordsworth offers for D. Wordsworth at the end of “Tintern Abbey”?

3. In his Biographia Literaria (474-88), Coleridge writes that he and Wordsworth, when planning Lyrical Ballads, decided that Coleridge's part in the volume "should be directed to persons and characters supernatural, or at least romantic; yet so as to transfer from our inward nature a human interest and a semblance of truth sufficient to procure for these shadows of imagination that willing suspension of disbelief for the moment, which constitutes poetic faith" (478). What part of "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner" can be called “supernatural”? What part of our “inward nature” does the “supernatural” represent, and what does it mean if we say that the poem requires a "willing suspension of disbelief"?

4. During this period, much of popular literature was “gothic” in nature. Gothic literature has sometimes been described as a blend of romance and horror. The reader’s pleasure in reading it comes from experiencing an entertaining fear, often caused by ghosts, demons, evil, darkness, madness, torture, etc. Can "Rime of the Ancient Mariner" be called a gothic poem?

5. In his Lectures on Shakespeare Coleridge argues that there is a difference between poetry written in "mechanic form" and that written in "organic form" (see pages 487-8). A poem is "mechanic," according to Coleridge, "when on any given material we impress a pre-determined form, not necessarily arising out of the properties of the material;--as when to a wet mass of clay we give whatever shape we wish it to retain when hardened. The organic form, on the other hand, is innate; it shapes, as it develops itself from within, and the fulness of its development is one and the same with the perfection of its outward form." He goes on to argue that just as Nature is "inexhaustable," so are its forms. I would like for you to look for places in Coleridge’s poetry where the form seems organic in this way, answering the demands of the subject matter, as opposed to predetermined. Discuss what it is about the poem's material that is causing the form to change. In other words, how is the form of the poem changing to meet the needs of its material?

6. The margin notes in “Rime of the Ancient Mariner” are Coleridge’s. They were not written by the editors of our anthology. Did you find Coleridge's marginalia helpful? Why or why not?

The Innocence in "Ode"

Reading Wordsworth's "Ode: Intimations of Immortality from Recollections on Early Childhood" I couldn't help but understand and appreciate the first stanza best.

"There was a time when meadow, grove, and stream, the earth, and every common sight, did seem apparelled in celestial light, the glory of a dream."

I interpreted these lines to be talking of the innocence of childhood and how when we are young, everything in nature and all around us looks beautiful and awe inspiring. We, as children, are so lost in our own innocent ignorance that we can't see the bad so much as the good. We notice the beauty in nature and try to be a part of it by enjoying ourselves in it; laughing, playing, frolicking and doing all the other fun and innocent things that children do and not having a care in the world.

"It is not now as it hath been of yore;--Turn wheresoe'er I may, by night or day, the things which I have seen I now can see no more."

The second part of the first stanza speaks of how when we grow up we loose that blissful ignorance that innocence of childhood brings. We see the world for what it really is to the educated and grown up mind. We look around us and see not only the good and beauty in the world, but also the evil and devastation that has been wrought on it, mostly by the hand of man. Why is it that we cannot maintain the beauty of the world all throughout our lives?

The mothering earth in whose bosom we dwell

My favorite section of Wordsworth's "Intimation of Immortality" is the verse paragraph numbered 6 in our book, comprised of lines 77-84. Though this is a short section of a much larger work, it has a short little story all its own which it completely tells through the use of an extended metaphor.
A large part of the charm this section holds for me has to do with the personification of the earth. This presents earth as a sort of motherly old nursemaid, enjoying company of humanity in her care. However, it also implies that she strives, though with the best of intentions, to distract her human charges and prevent them from thinking to deeply on their original heavenly residence.
The images these lines bring to my minds eye are drawn almost entirely from the pages of my childhood storybooks, with the earth represented by a sort of "Old Mother Hubbard" image with an elderly caregiver. She is clad in a long black dress, apron, and mob cap and her generous lap is the safe haven of a mischievous young humanity, which takes the form of several young children of ages ranging from toddler to young school age. In my mind they climb about on her lap and chair to her great enjoyment, except for one, who sits somewhat away from the group, lost in thought of that childhood imagining of a castle and the royal parents who will someday call for her.

My Explanation of Wise Passiveness.

I consider myself a pretty patient and passive person. I also believe that patience and passiveness come hand in hand, one can not be passive without patience. On the other hand i do find myself being aggressive or a risk taker from time to time. It seems that every time i jump right into something it may go ok for a while but inevitably it falls apart. In between each of these times when my patience is returned i first think how did i make it. Through trial and error and many hard lessons learned i realized the more i search and dig for answers the less i seem to get, and the ones i do get i have no clue what to make of them. A wise passiveness is knowing when to search for the answers and having the patience to understand them when they are meant to be understood. In the words of a great country singer Kenny Rogers "you got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away and know when to run."

"Ode": The Most Memorable Lines

As I sat and read "Ode: Intimations of Immortality from Recollections on Early Childhood" I could not help but notice how Wordsworth described a lot of this childhood as an enjoyment of being happy as a child by having a connection to nature. I quite enjoyed this poem just because of a few passages in this poem. The main passages were the first three but in particular the 1st and 3rd passage.

In passage one when Wordsworth said, "There was a time when meadow, grove, and stream, the earth, and every common sight, did seem apparelled in celestial light, the glory of a dream. It is not now as it hath been of yore;--Turn wheresoe'er I may, by night or day, the things which I have seen I now can see no more." I noticed in this passage how much the sight of nature is like a dream. The light that the sun provides or a "celestial light" made it seem like a dream. It is almost like the meadow, grove, or stream has never been seen in such a light that it is seen as like nothing before. But, by night or day what he sees now he can no longer see anymore because it is like his dream has ended. I could vision how he saw nature like an appearance in a flashback, thought, or a dream and also like it so beautiful that it does not seem real or too good to be true that it seems like it can only be seen like this in a dream.

In passage three Wordsworth says, "Now, while the birds thus sing a joyous song, and while the young lambs bound as to the tabor's sound, to me alone there came a thought of grief: a timely utterance gave that thought relief, and again I am strong." In these lines Wordsworth is describing how the music that the birds and the lambs, or as he seems to refer to them as children, made him recollect thoughts of sadness or grief. I like this line and the next line because it describes grief in a very discrete way saying that at certain times a song or a sound can make your "heart leap up" and reminisce on a low time in life or bring a since of sadness to your mind or thoughts. At the end of this passage he says, " Thou Child of Joy, Shout round me, let me hear thy shouts, thou happy Shepherd-boy!" This shows nature and its sounds can bring joy and happiness to you if you listen to the winds from the mountains earlier described in this passage. It is almost like the mountains are saying be joyful through its winds to the little boy.

Wordworth gives great examples and metaphors to describe how nature can influence a person or child's mood or life and can positively influence a life.

Favorite Lines From "Ode."

I greatly enjoyed Wordsworth’s “Ode: Intimations of Immortality” and found it difficult to pick my favorite passage. However, if I had to choose I would say that lines ten through eighteen (or passage two) is my favorite.

First and foremost I enjoyed this passage because it emphasizes the beauty of the earth. It portrays several aspects in a positive spotlight with lines such as “And lovely is the Rose,” “Waters on a starry night”and“The sunshine is a glorious birth.” Each line really “drew” me in to things I would not normally notice. For example, I wouldn’t usually take the time to stop and admire the beauty of a rose, water on a starry night, or the sun for that matter. These lines actually made me appreciate the simple things in life and ultimately the attractiveness of nature.

Next, this passage really “painted a picture” in my mind as I was reading it. Although there wasn’t a great deal of specific imagery in the stanza I could still “picture” a rainbow, a rose, a moon, and “waters on a starry night” in my head. Also, I would like to mention that I was fond of the rhyme scheme in this passage although it was not completely unique from the rest of the poem.

As for my interpretation of this specific passage I am not sure if there is a deeper meaning than the obvious which is simply the author discussing and observing Mother Nature. If I had to guess I would say that at one time, perhaps when Wordsworth was a child, that nature appeared to be “mysterious” and “fascinating” to him. However, the last line of the passage “That there hath past away a glory from the earth” leads me to believe that he eventually lost interest, and was no longer intrigued by nature perhaps when he became an adult. Or maybe Wordsworth was just not able to admire it the same way he did as a child. He can still see the rainbow, the rose, the moon, etc. but something is different now and isn’t quite the same.

Wordsworth Prompts, Part II

1. Wordsworth completed Ode: Intimations on Immortality in 1815. How is it similar to what we read from Lyrical Ballads, which was composed almost two decades earlier? How is it different? (You can discuss its content, its form, or a combination of these.) Please use specific examples.

2. Choose your favorite passage from "Ode" (one line, a few lines, ten lines, whatever) and explain why it is you like it. Part of this explanation should be your interpretation of the line(s).

3. "It is a beauteous evening" was written when Wordsworth visited France and met his illegitimate daughter, Caroline, for the first time (she was ten years old). His sister Dorothy describes the visit on page 400. Wordsworth was about to get married, but first he wanted to set things in order with his former lover and child in France. How does knowing this change the way you read/interpret the sonnet?

4. Watch this video and discuss the elements in Rifkin's presentation about an "empathic civilization" that can be compared to what we have read in Burns, Blake, and Wordsworth. The video is about ten minutes long.

Cheers. See you on Tuesday.

The Wisest Teacher

In William Wordsworths peom "The Tables Turned" he talks about "Books! tis a dull and endless strife" this shows how hes stating that a book is only as good as the words read from it. You can only perceive the picture the author is trying to create. A picture is worth a thousand words is true because you cant capture all of natures beauty by words alone.
The things one can learn from observing its surrounding are far more valuable than reading only. I especially like the lines "Come, hear the woodland linnet, How sweet his music! on my life, There's more of wisdom in it". This hits home nicely because even the most impressive and insightful classical music doesn't hold a candle to the sound and song of nature in my opinion. Nature has been the oldest Wisest teacher that the human race has had since existence long before books were written or even languages were formed. The things you can learn from nature without having any form of education can surely rival what your taught in school and in texts its just a matter of how apply the information given to you.

ignorance is not bliss.

I would compare Wordsworth's lines in Tintern Abbey to Blake's London in Songs of Experience. Wordsworth talks about looking at nature differently now than he did in his "thoughtless youth" and it relates to the "mind forg'd manacles" most people place on themselves or their intelligence. Most of this chaining of the mind is because of thoughtlessness or youth, metaphorically or physically. Not seeing the world for what it is, which at this point is quite depressing and abundantly clear that it is so, can be contributed to a certain blind eye. Also, Blake talks about plagues being put on some of the most important or coveted parts of life because it is all tainted and nothing should be so great when there is so much that is wrong with the world. In relation, Wordsworth says that humanity is still, sad music. This says to me that society as a whole is woeful. Music is beautiful and everyone loves some type of music or it speaks to them in some way. If humanity itself is sad music, then nothing should be joyful. If everything is tainted and it can clearly be heard, people should realize it and listen. Wordsworth may not spell it out like Blake but in these few lines he essentially says most of the same things Blake does in London. Instead of ignoring the sad music of humanity by thoughtlessness or forging your own mind shackles, look around and see what's happening.. ignorance is not bliss.

Inspiration

Inspiration is a shy a creature. She hides, only showing itself during the quiet moments of the mind. When one’s own thoughts meander and flow through the memories, hopes, and dreams of our minds this is when you can see her. Wordsworth writes, “Nor less I deem that there are Powers, / Which of themselves our minds impress; / That we can feed this mind of ours, / In a wise passiveness,” By not actively pursuing this creature, but by contemplation can we ever catch a glimpse of her. Aristotle once said that “That contemplation is the highest form of leisure,” and through this contemplation we sometimes can have an idea or an emotional memory that is planted and can possibly grow into something. Be it of words, of paint, of stone, or the idea itself. In those fleeting moments where time stands quietly out of the way and inspiration glances your way, thus planting that seed. This action cannot be forced. It has to develop organically from within and with practice one can become “wise” as to how recognize these moments. Even though “passiveness” is the path we take, we still need to be able to recognize the road signs that will lead us to inspiration.

Always Feeling

In "Expostulation and Reply" the narrator, William, speaks of how we not only use books and the teachings of others to learn but we also learn for ourselves by observance of nature and the world around us. He declares that the best way to learn and find the truth behind life is to observe and make our own findings of it, not by simply following what someone else teaches you life is. He speaks of "wise passiveness" as a form of observation. Thus to say that our minds are naturally wise enough to always be observing everything that in nature surrounds us. That way we are constantly learning, not just when our heads are stuck in books. Our minds are always at work so that actually trying to learn or look for some kind of inspiration or thought is more work than necessary because the mind is already looking for it on its own, not just when it is willed to. Therefore the narrator decides not to study in his books from another's point of view but from his own; learn from the source which the teacher learned from. That way his mind does not have to do as much work as everyone around him thinks theirs must.

" Come forth, and bring with you a heart that watches and recieves. "

What Wordsworth meant by saying "Come forth, and bring with you a heart that watches and recieves," is simply to take yourself out of the studies and out of all the analysis of life and enjoy life for what it is and the beautiful things it has to offer. To watch with your heart is to trust your feelings and trust in mother nature and what God has blessed us with. It means to open your mind past the things you are taught and take natural experiences in whole heartedly.

Wordsworth says "Come forth into the light of things, Let Nature be your Teacher. She has a world of ready wealth, Our minds and hearts to bless--. " Also he says " Enough of Science and Art; Close up those barren leaves (pages).." Both of these quotes, to me, say almost the same thing: Science and Art are lovely, but nature is God-given art which, in my opinion, is much more majestic and original in its beauty.

Overflow of feelings.

As soon as I read the line in Wordsworth's preface talking about being overcome with emotion when your by yourself reflecting I knew exactly what it meant. I've been having a few of these moments lately myself seeing as Tuesday is my twentieth birthday. I've been reflecting on my childhood a lot. Really it's an overwhelming feeling to think about how fast my childhood went by, and thinking about to be honest makes me pretty sad. I guess this also kind of relates to our discussions in class Tuesday about Blake's Songs of Innocence, and how sometimes we want to go back to that time in our lives when we were carefree.

The Language of Man

In Wordsworth's Preface to Lyrical Ballads, he is extremely passionate about writing his poetry in the "language of man". He says: "I have proposed to myself to imitate, and, as far is possible, to adopt the very language of men; and assuredly such personifications do not make any natural or regular part of that language." He is saying that the use of uneccessary measures to elevate the style of poetry can make the poetry unreadable and unrealistic. The more realistic and down to earth his poetry is, the better that the general populous can understand it and relate to it. His goal in writing this poetry was to entertain and draw the inner soul of man into his works by creating a new form a poetry. This form of poetry was not focused so much on being regarded as a highly sophisticated, purely artistic work, but was instead created to relate to the most readers possible by "speaking their language". Thus a new form of poetry was born.

wise passiveness.

In Woodworth's Expostulation and Reply, he talks about feeding our minds with a wise passiveness. To me, that means that we can gain knowledge from things that we personally experience and from the things surrounding us everyday. He says, " They eye it cannot choose but see; we cannot bid the ear be still;" meaning that we are constantly listening and watching what is going on right in front of us and all around us and we are learning from it. So when his friend Matthew asks him why he is just sitting on the grey stone and not reading books to learn something, he responds with telling hiim that he can learn just as much by just sitting on a stone and observing nature and what is going on around him, as he can from a book.

This wise passiveness is almost in a way a sixth sense. It is being open to what is all around you, and still retaining it and learning from it.

Open Your Mind. Wise Passiveness

In "Expostulation and Reply" Wordsworth talks about feeding your mind with wise passiveness. To me, this means that one should sit back and take it all in. In other words, instead of trying to be involved in everything and searching for knowledge, one should take in their surroundings and try to appreciate things the way they are. For example, in this poem, Wordsworth closes with "I sit upon this old grey stone, and dream my time away," I think by saying this he is explaining that sometimes in nature, you see things and they give you a feeling of happiness, or any other feeling for that matter, without really having to think about why or how it makes you feel this way. Sometimes a person can smell certain things and it brings back a memory or puts an image in your head of something, like smelling a pine tree could make you think of Christmas with your family. There are so many things that you can learn from nature without even having to disturb any part of it. Also, I think that the wise part of wise passiveness, would be to put yourself in a place or situation that you could take everything in.

“More like a man flying from something that he dreads, than one who sought the thing he loved”

Upon reading this poem, it is clear that the speaker has both changed in the years that he has been absent from Tintern Abbey, and yet, remained the same. Throughout the poem, you learn of the great love and admiration that the speaker has for nature. Through the recollection of his youth, the description of his memory of nature helping him through loneliness, and the way he describes the scene before him presently, it is clear that this love of nature has remained unchanged. While he has always possessed this love of nature, he has not always shown appreciation for it. In the beginning, he describes the different aspects of nature as if he has been enlightened. He remarks on “hearing the waters, rolling from their mountain springs” and that the lofty cliffs are impressing “thoughts of more deep seclusion”. Through Wordsworth’s use of diction, it is clear that the speaker is overjoyed with the sights laid out before him, and that perhaps he hasn’t always been. Further throughout the poem, he recounts on his experience with nature in the time that he spent there in his youth. Here, the reader learns that how he appreciated nature then differs from the way he appreciates it now. There was one line in particular that I found to emphasize this point tremendously—“more like a man flying from something that he dreads, than one who sought the thing he loved.” This shows how truly different the speaker perceives himself now as opposed to his youth.

The speaker’s reference to his younger sister is significant to the poem. His sister serves the purpose of reminding him of his youth. He further reflects on “what I was once” and how in his absence, “nature never did betray the heart that loved her.” Upon this reflection, he hopes that nature will be more present to his younger sister and in the times that she feels lonely away from this place, she will be reminded of the time they shared experiencing nature. His sister could also serve as a reassurance that his love of nature would continue on through her fond memories.

Knowledge of Nature

The Tables Turned is a great poem. The whole poem is trying to get his friend to understand there is more than reading books to knowledge, and to get up and enjoy outside because there is much to learn in nature. This is shown in the line that says, " Let Nature be your teacher." The last lines are asking for the reader to have a clear mind and open heart that is able to have patience in watching what is going on in nature, and then being able to gain some knowledge. He believes that there is more to learning then reading books, and that you are truly learning when you understand nature and what it has to offer you. He believes there is much to learn from nature and that you will be able to understand the world and knowledge with the help of nature.....not just books.

"Our Meddling Intellect"

"Come forth, and bring with you a heart / That watches and receives."

More so than literally saying we should observe things with our hearts, the speaker encourages us to temporarily turn off the analytical portions of our brains that have been trained in school and by the books (mentioned earlier in the poem) to question and consider everything we come in contact with. Instead, we should allow other parts of the brain, artistic and sensory portions, more freedom in observing everything around us.

But what can we actually receive without relying on the part of our brain that controls our conscious thought? Specifically according to the poem: the sunset and its expression of colors across the grass, bird songs and the knowledge they carry, and the wisdom of the plants and flowers. In a more realistic sense, there is much more to be received, in some cases, by just taking a moment to simply enjoy the beauty of not just nature, but the pure and simple things in life. We have been so inclined, probably more so in our current time than when this poem was written in 1798, to feel the need to fully understand everything, to "murder to dissect". It is almost as if we have forgotten that it is possible to just enjoy the natural beauty of the mountains or a sunset, because "Our meddling intellect / Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things".

But as college students, how often are we encouraged to use our heart instead of our brain? No matter what our academic path, we are constantly bombarded with the importance of scientific research and approaches, that it becomes almost impossible to think of anything else. Maybe Wordsworth's poem can remind us that the next time we see a flower, instead of jumping to photosynthesis and pollination, our minds will simply let us perceive its natural beauty.

Wordsworth Prompts, Part I (Posted on 1/25)

1. Many people believe that poetry is difficult to read because it uses pretentious language or an uncommon vocabulary. Others feel that poetry is for highly educated people with an extensive background in literature. How does Wordsworth address these ideas in his Preface to Lyrical Ballads? What is he trying to do differently? What is your sense of Wordsworth’s idea of what a poet, and what poetry, should be? And, more importantly, do you think his poetry lives up to these ideas?

2. In "Expostulation and Reply,” "William" (probably Worsdworth, or at least a persona like him) suggests to his friend Matthew that "powers" can "impress" themselves upon us even if we are not looking for them. In fact, looking for inspiration, truth, knowledge, beauty, etc. may be too active a process. Wordsworth writes that "we can feed this mind of ours, / In a wise passiveness." What is "wise passiveness"? (Note: I promise I am not looking for one specific answer, so take a shot at this.)

3. Discuss the last lines of "The Tables Turned": "Come forth, and bring with you a heart / That watches and receives." How can one watch with the heart? What is it that can be received? Use other lines from the poem as part of your response.

4. Relate these lines from "Tintern Abbey" to something from Blake's Songs of Innocence and Experience:

For I have learned

To look on nature, not as in the hour

Of thoughtless youth, but hearing oftentimes

The still, sad music of humanity.

5. How has the speaker of "Tintern Abbey" changed in the five years since he first visited? How is he the same? Do you think it is significant that he addresses his younger sister in the poem? Please use specific lines from the poem in your response.

6. In his Preface, Wordsworth writes of "emotion recollected in tranquility" that leads to "the spontaneous overflow of feelings." What does this mean? Can it really happen? Has it happened to you? If you feel comfortable relating an experience where this has happened, I would love to read about it.

See you on Thursday.

Innocence & Experience.

Throughout Blake's poetry, it becomes quite evident what his overall vision of "innocence" and "experience" truly is. Innocence to Blake is clearly childhood or the state of childhood. Childhood to Blake isn't really a state of being naive necessarily, but a state of being free and almost elated because the mind of a child is almost, indeed, pure and blind to the oppressions and struggles throughout life that they have not yet "experienced." I believe, personally, that in a way, he is also discretely speaking of his inner child or inner "innocence." If you read into "The Songs of Innocence," you can see that he is obviously speaking of a child, but he says "On a cloud I saw a child.." Then in the last two stanzas he seems to be speaking of being told by this child to " ' sit thee down and write In a book that all may read' So he vanished from my sight And I pluck'd a hollow reed, And I made a rural pen, And I stain'd the water clear, And I wrote my happy songs Every child may joy to hear. " Could he have been day-dreaming of himself as a child or channeling his inner child as an inspriation to create these books of songs he was writing? It's almost as if he misses his childhood days when he makes references in his songs to children. For example in " The Ecchoing Green, " lines 15-20, he speaks of the joys that were seen "When we were all, girls & boys."
He also makes a couple biblical references to innocence in that when he speaks of a child, he refers to them as a "lamb." In "The Lamb" he goes to say " Little Lamb who made thee? Dost thou know who made thee? Little Lamb I'll tell thee, Little Lamb I'll tell thee! He is called by thy name, For he calls himself a Lamb; He is meek & he is mild, He became a little child; I a child and thou a lamb, We are called by his name. Little Lamb God bless thee." Also, in "Holy Thursday," which is a religiously bound holiday in London, he says " The hum of multitudes was there, but multitudes of lambs, Thousands of little boys and girls raising their inncocent hands." He also makes reference to the book of Genesis when making the transition from the poems focused more on "innocence" to, specifically, "The Songs of Experience."
"Experience," to Blake, proves to be the realizations of the adult life: anger, hatred, poverty, and all sorts of misfortune that people have to face with solely life "experience." You first get a taste of Blake's "experience " in "The Chinmey Sweeper." It tells the story of a young boy whose mother is deceased and his father sold him to work as a Chimney sweep, and in that miserable life, he experiences God, and in the end he finds comfort in knowing that God is there for him and waiting on him when the time is right. He also begins to sound a little bitter when dealing with love in " The Clod & the Pebble." "Love seeketh only Self to please, To bind another to it's delight; Joys in another's loss of ease, and builds a Hell in Heaven's despite." He also speaks much of poverty and missfortune in the "contrary" "Holy Thursday." " Is that a trembling cry a song? Can it be a song of joy? And so many chilren poor? It is a land of poverty!"
I believe Blake's interpretations of "innocence" and "experience" are extremely personal. This is what he's feeling/has felt growing into an adult, and these songs of innocence and these songs of experience are inspired by his past childhood and the, then, modern-day London.

Innocence & Experience

In William Blake's poems he defines innocence and experience in different ways. In his poem Nurse's Song he portrays innocence through children, he says, "When the voices of children are heard on the green and whispering are in the dale, the days of my youth rise fresh in my mind." He portrays their innocence by showing that children don't have a care in the world they just play outside without a worry. They have yet to experience worry so therefore they know nothing about it. Blake also defines innocence and experience in his poem The Fly. In his poem he says, "for I dance and drink & sing,Till some blind hand shall brush my wing," the fly is innocent it just goes about life without thinking, it does not have much awareness. He also portrays this idea by saying, " Then am I a happy fly, if I live, or if i die." the fly's innocence gives it the ability to have little awareness about whether it lives or dies. William Blake's poem The Chimney Sweeper also portrays both innocence and experience through a child. He say's, " You know that the soot cannot spoil your white hair.'' The child is both young (innocence) and has to work (experience). The child should be enjoying his youth but instead is obligated to work.

The Piper's Joy and the Bard's Sorrow

The "Introduction" of Songs of Innocence begins with two quatrains wherein a child exhorts a piper to play songs about a lamb, the very symbol of innocence. These songs touch the child to tears of ecstasy. The poem goes on to tell the reader that after a repetition of this startling performance the piper sits and records all of his apparently thrilling children's songs, which serves to advise the reader that they will continue to delight other children.
In the "Introduction" to Songs of Experience, the genial piper has become an omniscient bard, a professional poet. This bard is either issuing or witnessing a call for the earth to change its most basic patterns of dark and day. While the exact line of who is calling to whom is murky, the tone of jaded weariness is clear, and a clear departure from the previous tone of mindless enjoyment. In its final sections, the Experience "Introduction" gives the reader and impression of questioning and chaotic earth whose darkness signifies the denial of the light of God's face.
A similar juxtaposition can be seen in the final selections from each section reprinted in the textbook, "Infant Joy" and "Infant Sorrow." While both begin in the voice of a new born infant, only the birth of the first, in Songs of Innocence seems to be heralded as a welcome addition to its family. In the first stanza the infant itself takes the name "Joy," while in the second stanza someone other than the infant seconds the wonder of this child, expressing, again, happiness and great emotion in the form of song.
In "Infant Sorrow," only two short stanzas suffice to tell of the hopelessness of this sullen and unwelcome addition to the family. The quatrains are both in the voice of the infant, and we don't even get the accord of a parental voice agreeing with the child's own self-assessment. The contradiction lies within the fact that the description of the parents actions, though shown in a negative light through the infant's eyes, are actually subject to a wholly different interpretation. Given that only the most drug-addled or masochistic of new mothers would forebear from groaning in the pain of childbirth, perhaps hers was not a groan of dispair but of pain gladly suffered in the delivery of her child. Similarly, the father's weeping may actually have more in common with the child hearing the piper in the "Introduction" to Songs of Innocence; he may weep for joy at the healthy delivery of his child. Swaddling a child was a way to keep them warm and prevent them from constantly suffering from the inborn startle response, and the breast he sulks upon would be a warm and safe source of food and comfort.
All of this seems to point out the idea that the difference between innocence and experience lies not in physical fact but rather in interpretation of circunstances that may, in fact, be similar or even identical.

Is holding a grudge worth it

The poem that stood out to me the most was "A Poison Tree." This poem is about how the speaker had a problem with his friend and approached his friend about it, told his friend what was bothering him, and in result they resolved the problem. However, he had another experience with a friend making him angry, besides this time he did not tell his friend what was bothering him and left it alone. However, instead of the problem just going away, it grew worse and worse and lead the speaker to hate this friend. This person that used to be referred to as his friend had now been known as his foe. In result, he ended up disliking this person so bad that he wished death upon him. I feel like everyone can relate to this poem in some kind of way. Sometimes when we are angry with our friends, we feel that the best way to go about it is just to leave it alone and hope that it goes away on its own. But more than likely, ignoring the issue and not approaching your friend about what is bothering you usually only makes the problem more extreme and the issue worse. Therefore, it is always important to confront your friends what made you angry or what they did to bother you, so you guys can talk it out and resolve the dilemma. Friends are too important in everyone's life to let something minor grow into something major just because you decided not to tell your friend what they did to upset you.

"Innocence" and "Experience" According to Blake

After reading Blake’s poetry it is safe to assume that he would quickly identify “innocence” with young children. This is evident in “Introduction” where it discusses a child who receives great joy just by listening to a song. In fact, Blake focuses on youth in the majority of his poems. For example, “The Lamb” is about a child who questions a lamb about its origins and I believe the lamb is symbolic of innocence. Moreover, “The Nurse’s Song” involves children playing outside while their nurse watches over them. Also, having safety and no sense of danger could go “hand and hand” with Blake’s idea of “innocence” since the children in “The Nurse’s Song” were watched over and protected by the nurse. Ultimately, Blake is stating, in his poems, that childhood is a state of “innocence,” “care freeness” and “inexperience.”

“Songs of Experience” poems quite often contradicted Blake’s “Songs of Innocence.” Therefore, I would define “experience” as the loss of childhood. Not to mention, some of these excerpts imply that humans are more “experienced” once they grow not only physically but emotionally by enduring “trials” and “tribulations.” For example, “The Chimney Sweeper” has a gloomy and dark tone (referring to hardship) with lines such as “They clothed me in the clothes of death,” and “Who make up a heaven of our misery.” I would also say that Blake would coin “experience” as perhaps involving fear and being confined by rules/regulations. For example, I interpreted the poem “Infant Sorrow” to be symbolic of anyone who has ever tried to resist oppression or power whether it is from a tyrant, government, or even a church. The father in the poem is representing the one in “power” since the poem states “Striving in my father’s hands,” but this is just my interpretation.

Lastly, I would define Blake’s idea of “experience” as embedding religion. Religion is deeply rooted in almost all of his poems. I think he would see someone as “experienced” if he or she has been exposed to the word of God. In “Introduction” from “Songs of Experience” it reads “Whose ears have heard the Holy Word that walk’d among the ancient trees,” which leads me to believe Blake’s definition of “experience” not only involves the loss of childhood and hardships but also the familiarity of God and his word.

Poetry and Pictures

Having a poem accompanied by an illustration aids both the reader and poet for the same reasons. It allows the poet to portray with more than just words what he/she is trying to depict, because a "setting" and "mood" can be made based on how the illustration is made. In turn, this allows the reader to remain focused on what the poet is trying to get across, not an assumption that could be horribly wrong. For instance, in Blake's A Poison Tree, the first thing that one sees is a lifeless person that is almost fully engulfed by a long and withering tree. These two images can be viewed as dark and decrepit, which is exactly what Blake intended because it deals with anger being so built up he finally decides to kill his enemy. Granted, this poem was fairly simple to understand and could have been without a picture, but a definite setting and mood was made even before I began to read it.

I'm definitely not a poetry reader, and frankly don't seem to find the meaning most of the time. Having an illustration following a poem helps me out quite a bit because at least I can decipher whether a poem is jovial or forlorn, dark or optimistic, etc. Blake is a genius for finally coupling both poem and picture. I thank him

A Child's Innocence

While reading through Blake's Songs of Innocence and Experience I was immediately drawn to the term lamb. When I personally think of the word lamb I think of innocents. However, I feel that Blake was drawling attention to this term for biblical reasons. Followers of God are commonly referred to as God's sheep. Dr. William Smith states,"As the sheep is an emblem of meekness, patience, and submission, it is expressively mentioned typifying qualities in the person of our blessed Lord." Blake writes"Pipe a song about a lamb." By saying this I feel he was saying sing a song about a biblical experience, such as, Noah and The Ark or Adam and Eve. A song that would be sung from the experiences of others in order to deliver a message to the listener. Apart from the biblical side of the spectrum I feel Blake uses the experiences of others to inform or educate his readers. I believe that Blake uses the term lamb throughout his poetry to indirectly describe innocence, and also directly in the Introduction to display the experiences of Christians in the Bible. Blake frequently uses children in this poetry. The majority of people throughout the world and throughout time believe children to be innocent, I feel that Blake shares that belief. He uses children in his poetry to evoke emotion in the reader. "And my father sold me while yet my tongue Could scarcely cry, Weep, Weep, Weep, Weep! So your chimneys I sweep & in soot I sleep." The thought of an Innocent child being sold and then forced into chimney sweeping is a thought too sad to think of. That is just one example of the many in our reading where Blake uses the innocence of a child to evoke emotion in his readers. So I defiantly believe that Blake believes children and lamb/sheep to be symbols of innocence.



Smith, William, Dr. "Definition for 'Sheep' Smiths Bible Dictionary."Bible-dictionary.com- Smiths; 1901

Resentment only hurts the person who has it.

A Poison Tree
He writes how he was angry with a friend and he told that friend the anger went away. Then he was angry with a foe and did not tell him and his anger just got more stronger, and it kept getting stronger everyday.
The vision here that if you have a resentment towards someone and you fester it and you let that person live in your head rent free, and every time you see that foe and you get angrier and angrier the only person it hurts is you.
You will be better off to tell the person you are angry with as soon as possible.
The poem went on to suggest that the anger grew into a small plant and the plant grew larger till it grew a shiny apple and the plant was now a tree.
The end of the poem his foe got in the "garden" ate the apple became poisoned and died under the tree.
Here it can be implied that this is the garden of Eden, or implies that you finally ended the anger by your foe dying.
This is a rhyming poem. I like rhymes, it just seems to flow better for me when I read it. Rhymes for me seems cleaner and it sounds better, I look at it if it would be a song, how I would hear it. will it ring out and echo.

Rhyming: White/Light...What does it mean?

Rhyming as I know can be seen in many different ways in poetry. It can be seen through a poem, song, or even a short story. In William Blake's "The Little Black Boy", there are many internal and ending rhymes in this song/poem. For one, white/light, Blake says, "And I am black, but O! my soul is white; But I am black as if bereav'd of light." Blake is trying to say that even though a child may be physically seen as black by the color of the skin that does not mean that they are perceived as black because the soul of the child may be "as white as an angel" as he stated in the song/poem. The color of a person's skin does not state how they act. This can be said in today's society, just because a person may be black that does not mean that they cannot be as intelligent or speak as articulately like a white person. This simply is discrimination saying that just because one black person is seen, as by a white person, as loud and "ghetto" does not lead all black people to behave the same. Blake seemed to share his views toward the slave trade of the 1700s - 1800s by writing this poem. Blake's thoughts were radical at the time but did show that if you were black you were missing something like, "But I am black as if bereav'd of light." He also displays how people view the white boy by saying, "White as an angel is the English child". Saying that the child is white is comparing the child to that of an angel saying he is perfect and the black boy is not but wants to be perfect. But, as the mother states that everyone is seen the same in God's eyes, but why can't he be the same as the white English child during those times of hard life?

Prompts for William Blake - Songs of Innocence and Experience

For Tuesday, please respond to one of the following prompts, and please come prepared to discuss all of them. 

1. In poetry, rhyme (both internal rhyme and end-rhyme) is often used to compare/contrast/juxtapose important words. Therefore, looking closely at rhyming words can often tell us much about a given poem. For example, if I rhyme "thought" and "rot" in a poem, you might justifiably draw the conclusion that I don't think very much of the thought! In other words, rhyming words draw meaning out of each other. With this in mind, choose one of the poems from Songs of Innocence and Experience and write about the "meaning" that is contained in some of its rhymes. For example, if you were to write about "The Little Black Boy," you could discuss some, or all, of the following rhymes: wild/child, white/light, tree/me, day/say, live/receive, away/day, etc. This prompt is trying to introduce you to one of the many ways that poems are different from other genres of literature.

2. Using specific examples from the poems, define "innocence" and "experience." Obviously, I'm mainly looking for you to think about how Blake sees innocence and experience, but you may expand your discussion beyond that context as long as you refer to specific examples from the poetry.

3. Blake was a visionary. He claimed to see God, angels, and prophets. Allegedly, his deceased brother's spirit visited him and gave him the idea for illustrated texts, or "Illuminated Printing" as he called it. Blake intended his poems to be read in this way, as part of the larger work of art. "The Sick Rose" is on page C2 of your textbook, and "A Poison Tree" appears above. How does your reading of these poems change when the text is part of a work of visual art rather than text alone? What, if anything, do the poems gain? What, if anything, do they lose? (Note: You can view all of the illuminated poems at the Blake Archive.)

4. Use these lines from "The Divine Image" (85) as a critical lens as you analyze one other poem from Songs of Innocence and Experience:

For Mercy has a human heart
Pity, a human face:
And Love, the human form divine,

And Peace, the human dress.


5. Many of the themes of Songs of Innocence are revisited in Songs of Experience. Sometimes the poems even have the same title in both volumes. Choose an example or two and discuss what changes between the two volumes. Then draw some larger conclusions about "innocence" and "experience" based on those changes. (This is similar to prompt #2, which you could combine with this one if you wish.)

paine vs. burke.

Thomas Paine's From Rights of Man is a wonderful counterargument to Edmund Burkes From Reflections on the Revolution in France, and I believe is also the most persuasive argument of them all. In his phamplet, Paine argues that no one government contains all the power. He also argues that laws and principles of past leaders and governments should not be passed down through the future leaders, and just that is the reason for the French Revolution. Paine states, "It was not against Louis the XVIth, but against the despotic principles of the government, that the nation revolted ... and they were become too deeply rooted to be removed, and the augean stable of parasites and plunders too abominably filthy to be cleansed by anything short of a complete and universal revolution." So by passing down these principles from leader to leader there are only reprecussions for the latter and not the former. And with that being said, Paine gives his strong belief that every new leader should have his own beliefs and principles.

Pompous and Snooty Words

Burke's Reflections on the Revolution in France clearly supported the American Revolution yet when it came to his own country he defended the rich. I think this would not be persuasive at all to the people who really want the revolution. It may keep those who secretly supported it from voicing their opinions because of their sense of propriety and civility but those who were truly fighting for The Revolution would be very offended. He says, "We have an inheritable crown, an inheritable peerage; and a house of commons and a people inheriting privileges, franchises, and liberties, from a long line of ancestors." This is the very thing the people want to fight against. He doesn't give any reason this revolution would not benefit anyone but the already rich. Fear of the new instills fear but also makes people excited for equal rights and possibly of prosperity. Even though he says people deserve equal rights, "they don't deserve equal things" which makes no sense at all. Equal rights include the idea that people could have the option to be successful for themselves. It seems like he contradicts himself a lot and in turn it makes him less credible and he just seems like he's speaking from a position of snootiness. Writing about the people who want The Revolution like they are "ridiculous" for wanting rights will not persuade them to think that keeping things the way they are would be best. It's ultimately going to push them the other way. All this essay does is show the people of The Revolution the selfish fear of the rich who only want for themselves and it probably made them angrier. I do not believe the few should ever make decisions for the many and if they did it the way they wanted, nothing would ever get done and that's how they want it. This is why change would never come without desperate action, and if the people of The Revolution did not gain attention, "barbaric" or what have you, the few might still be making all the decisions. For all these reasons, I believe this argument is the least persuasive to the society as a whole and only re-enforces what the pompous, snooty rich already think about their own wealth and position; it does not appeal to logic or reasoning of the mass of people.

Price's View

From A Discourse on the Love of Our Country has a very interesting upbeat disposition. It is obvious that Richard Price is particularly pleased with the way things turned out after the French Revolution. He states, “The bounds of free enquiry were enlarged the volume in which are the words of eternal life, was laid more open to our examination; and that aera of light and liberty was introduced among us, by which we have been made an example in other kingdoms, and become the instructors of the world.” Which makes for a very persuasive argument as in they are all great results of the Revolution. Price was thrilled to have lived during that time and witness all the changes that took place. “I have lived to see the rights of men better understood than ever; the nations panting for liberty, which seemed to have been lost the idea of it.” Although he believes that the Revolution was a great success, he also points out the fact that in the end it was not perfect. His excerpt is convincing that the French Revolution was a remarkable happening that needed to take place.

I find Thomas paine's arguement to be by far the most persuasive. He takes a very rational approach,the outcome of which is that Burke's arguement seems overwrought and too dramatic. Paine disposes of the idea that any governing body might beneficiently have all power for all time by pointing out the potential for abuse when power is concentrated in the hands of a ruler who answers to none. It also speaks to the absurdity of a static, unchangable system being effective for an as yet unborn posterity living in an unimagined future world. He also notes the problem of the death of a single ruler throwing a country into a nightmare of governance by committee, with none having the welfare of the populace at heart.

While Burke relies on very descriptive language and specific cases of horrors that quickly begin to reek of cheap sensationalism, Paine's rhetoric, though in complex sentence structure, yet reads more clearly in laying out the writer's intent. When Paine accuses Burke of being theatrical in his pamphlet, he doesn't miss by much. However, throughout most of his essay his tone comes across as fair, if not exactly neutral, which keeps it from sounding like sour grapes. Instead Paine points out instances of faulty reasoning and poor logic. He adds to this triumph of intellect over emotion by pointing out historical examples that support his assertions and discuss outcomes from both points of view. This not only gives him an air of being in tune with the events of the day and the feeling of the populace, it also serves as a sort of educational marker that Burke can't seem to meet.

This rhetorical techniques used in these arguments are still quite relevant today, with each side in any given dabate striving to show the flaws of the other. The idea of people preferring a better spoken leader who seems to be the better educated canidateis also a very current trend.

Rhetoric of the Status Quo

Edmund Burke’s Reflections on the Revolution in France was the writings of man who did not see the need for the changing of the class structure of the time. With his words, “it has been the uniform policy of our constitution and assert our liberties, as an entailed inheritance derived to us from our forefathers…” that the point he makes is simply that this is the way it has been and should always be. This is a right and true course. That being said everyone has rights as long as it adheres to the class code with those rights being divvied up according to that class structure. In our long history of Homo-Sapiens there has always been an order of the classes. Whereby there has and is a select group within a larger group who have privileges that others do not. Also, within the larger group there are those whose sole purpose is to cater to the needs of the ruling class. And when this social structure is threatened the ruling class will inevitably will defend the social structure for fear of losing their own standing in the group. Which in my humble opinion Edmund Burke’s essay (which took a year to compose) was written out of fear, a fear of losing his (and his fellow statesmen) place in the hierarchy of the status quo. By pointing to the chaos and the barbarism of the revolutionaries he is appealing to the public’s sense of chivalry and position. With such an emotional appeal as this there is only one course of action. That is to not let these acts take place here and to let change come slow and easy through those that are more educated and better qualified (the status quo) to handle these and any other questions as to the rights of man in all the classes. When those who think that they know what is best for everyone, yet do not have even an inkling of the impact on those of the lower classes. Then they will speak of change, of revolution and a redistribution of the status quo.

"Mr. Burke shews that he is ignorant of the springs and principles of the French revolution."

After reading the pieces regarding the French revolution, I found that Thomas Paine's "Rights of Man" proved to be the most persuasive. Thomas Paine's pamphlet intended to reveal the flaws in Edmund Burke's pamphlet regarding his views on the French Revolution. Through Paine’s valid reasoning, he successfully presented the imperfections in Burke’s pamphlet.

Burke's "Reflections on the Revolution in France" left me in a state of confusion. Only after reading Paine's pamphlet, and Mary Wollstonecraft's letters as well, did I grasp an understanding of Burke's pamphlet. From my interpretation, it seems that Burke believed that the problem with the French government lied with the person in charge rather than the laws that the person in charge was obligated to enforce. Paine responded to this speculation by saying that Burke was “ignorant of the springs and principles of the French revolution”.

Throughout Paine’s work, he expressed that Burke did not fully comprehend the subject matter in which he chose to write. I found one section of the excerpt to be especially interesting; this was the section explaining that Burke did not understand the distinction between man and principle. Paine explained that the revolution took place as a result of the principles of the government, not as a result of the king. I found this exceptionally insightful and a valid reason to disprove Burke’s theory.

Paine’s work was created to dispute the ideas that Burke presented in his pamphlet. Paine successfully presented his argument by presenting the flaws in Burke’s work and by supporting his argument with valid explanations. As a result, I found this piece the most persuasive as opposed to the others that I read.

In this partnership all men have equal rights, but not to equal things.

I have to agree with the person who posted before me who said this was not an easy read for them, but I'm going to try my best to post something that doesn't sound completely crazy. So in Burke's essay Reflections on the Revolution in France one line really stood out to me that talked about men and their rights (hence my title). In this partnership all men have equal rights, but not to equal things; this is still so very true in today's society. Just because today we are supposed to have "equal" rights and opportunities doesn't necessarily mean it's true. We've all experienced this, and I'm sure throughout the rest of our live's we will continue to experience it.

A Nation Ruled by the Dead

While reading Edmund Burke's pamphlet I felt sympathy for his cause. The extinction of chivalry and the traditions he had become accustomed to had begun. Honestly, I feel chivalry is rapidly decreasing in America today, and it disgusts me. However, despite my sympathies, I found myself persuaded by Thomas Paine. He thoroughly points out that each generation is its own, and should have the right to govern itself the way that particular generation sees fit. Paine states, "Man has no property in man; neither has any generation a property in the generations which are to follow." That statement, among others, directly speared the heart of Burke's sad little story of tradition and heredity. Paine then goes on to argue that the dead have no authority in the issues concerning today. I completly agree with Paine. If America made no amendments to the Constitution made by our forefathers we would still be making the same ignorant mistakes most of them took part in, such as slavery. The French Revolution was needed not only for a change in France, but to promote change in surrounding nations. While Bruke obviously felt the mob that arrested the King and Queen had been harsh, I feel, the people were justified in their actions. Sometimes it takes a loud noise to get the attention of a crowed room; the capture of the King and his Queen made a noise loud enough for everyone to hear. Hence, the war of pamphlets.

The loss cannot be estimated

I found it persuasive when Burke stated, "When antient opinions and rules of life are taken away, the loss cannot possibly be estimated." That is pretty much saying if we took all the rules out of the world and did not have any authority enforcing rules, this world would be chaos. Therefore, the Revolution War had to take place to try to better the government to where the rules were concrete and enforced. When a country is getting out of hand and the leader is not making necessary orders or rules to get everything under control then a change has got to happen. A country cannot function properly without a set of rules that everyone has to abide by. If there was not any rules people would go around and do whatever they wanted because they would know that there would not be any punishment for their actions. This statement is also saying taking opinions away from people would be a great loss in a country. Opinions are the right to express how you feel and how you feel on a certain subject. If people cannot express themselves or their feelings in an orderly manner then that invades in their freedom of speech. In result, when people are forced to keep opinions and feelings bottled up inside them it can cause some people to react to chaos. In closing, nothing positive can result from taking rules and opinions away from a country.

"Should" They Succeed

I found Richard Price's, A Discourse for the Love of Our Country, to be the most persuasive. As he stated, "What an eventful period is this! I am thankful that I have lived to it; and I could almost say, Lord now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, for mine eyes have seen thy salvation"-Luke 2:29-30. He mainly caught my attention by linking God and the bible to his strong love for his country and the French Revolution. This to me shows that he not only cares for his people, the Revolution, and his country but also a love for God which I believe that without God everyday life and situations would never be the same, that is just my personal opinion. Price also pointed out that the most important instance of the imperfect state that the Revolution left the constitution was the inequality of our representation. I felt that he was right at a sense to say this because even though the Revolution did somewhat defeat their constitution, it could in his eyes eventually be made excellent or perfected which to me showed his faith in his country, government, and people. He did not take it upon the Revolution to be to blame for the faultiness of the constitution but instead had optimism, which I try to have during everyday life. Some of the subjects that he touched upon really related to me which made him the most persuasive out of the four according to my personal opinion.

Revolutions are always controversial and seem to be needed at that time

This was not an easy read, no where did I see any real one way or the other stand for or against the French revolution war. I guess I was looking for a poetic read and a strong stand.There was a small paragraph that disturbed me, Burke wrote that if a King,Queen,Bishop,or father was killed and it was to better an individual or people than committing that murder could be excused...
When a society knows it's place and where they fit into there social environment, a person is going to view life differently, there social status will not change in till the individual wants something better than they already have. Nothing changes till you rise up and say I am going to make a better life for me.When peasants rise up and want a better life, a revolution war is eminent and the only way to better their life is to go to war and to take whatever they believe that will make their life better for that, yes I believe that is tyranny egnorant and brutal
and at that specific point in time humanity can be viewed as savage

Burke vs. Paine

Personally, I found Thomas Paine’s argument to be the most persuasive and reasonable argument in favor of the French revolution. He makes excellent points against Burke’s argument when he states “Mr. Burke is contending for the authority of the dead over the rights and freedom of living.” Also I agree with Paine when he claims that “Mr. Burke shews that he is ignorant of the springs and principles of the French revolution.”

After reading Paine’s excerpt I agree that the French revolution was necessary or any revolution is needed, for that matter, when a government is not protecting the natural rights of its own citizens. For example, people were starving due to high bread prices and bad harvesting prior to the revolution. Not to mention, France was under great financial stress considering they had fought numerous wars before. Obviously change was not only desired but necessary for France to mature and improve as a nation. I got the “vibe” from Burke’s argument that the citizen’s of France had no right to revolt or even attempt to overthrow their government no matter what the circumstances may be. This is a displeasing opinion to me because if there was not any disagreement or even revolts against authority (throughout history) then how would any reform (for the better) have taken place and how would corruption have ceased? Plus (as I stated earlier) if a government is not doing its job then citizens absolutely have the right to push for a reform or revolution. I think Paine would agree since he declares “..that there are rights which men inherit at their birth…not from their forefathers but, from God..” Burke, I think, was more focused on the forefathers and tradition which is why I think Paine makes the claim that Burke is more focused on the “authority of the dead over the rights and freedom of living.”

"What an eventful period is this!"

Of the letters regarding the French Revolution, I found Richard Price's A Discourse on the Love of Our Country the most persuasive as to the true nature of the Revolution. In this sermon, Price writes that not only does he support the basis for the Revolution, but he believes the country will be better off because of it. But that is not what most caught my attention.

It seems like most people who believe so highly in something, as Price does for the Revolution, would rant and rave about what had been accomplished. Price, on the other hand, dedicates an entire section of his sermon to the fact that the Revolution "was by no means a perfect work". This gives his writing a very real tone, showing that he is proud of what has happened in France, but not too proud to admit that some things could have been done differently. They have accomplished a lot, but they still have very far to go.

Price's passion and desire for liberty is very clear from the writing of this sermon, not only in his expressed excitement for the country of France, but for other countries that have, and will hopefully, experience the same enlightenment.

Chivalry died with the queen

In Burke's "On the Revolution in France," he talks about the first time he saw the queen. He states: "I thought ten thousand swords must have leaped from their scabbards to avenge even a look that threatened her with insult." When Marie Antionette first became queen she was loved by everyone and was thought to be a great asset to France. But as France grew poorer, the queen still loved to spend money on herself. Even though, it amazes me at how a woman can go from being adored and admired to being raped and slaughtered. This is why I believe that chivalry died with the queen. Before the French Revolution, everyone was so sophisticated, then it was like a bunch of barbarians were released into the palace. Some, even, taking matters of execution into their own hands. Instead of all of the polite men that would bow before the queen, they were ruthless killers who would decapitate people and hang their heads on top of steaks in the ground. They left the palace in a blood bath, instead of handling things the way they would have been handled before. No longer was there respect for the royal, but instead a hate and a bloodthirst

A Foreshadowing of Sorts...

One of the most frequently argued points Edmund Burke makes in his Reflections on the Revolution in France was that social and political reform should be gradual, not instant.  Not only should this change be gradual, but change based on abstract concepts such as liberty should not be based on such, as this "liberty" and "the rights of man" could later be used for leverage by a tyrant in a future upheaval fueled by an uncertain revolution in France under shaky leadership, at best.

The reason this argument is such a strong argument is simple; this argument has been proven to be true, not only in France but also in other parts of the world.  There are concrete examples of how abstract principles can obstruct the true goals of revolution, and these examples exist in France, Germany, and other tyrannies throughout the Nineteenth and Twentieth centuries.  The same reason that France in the 19^th century and Germany in the 20^th century were later embroiled in a mutinous tyranny was also foretold in Reflection as the disorder these countries found themselves in allowed the army to become divided with factions and cliques and from this army divided would come a popular general (Napoleon Bonaparte and Adolf Hitler), whose popularity and political leadership would propel him to be the new leader of the country.